Wednesday, January 4, 2023

Honne to tatemae

 
honne to tatemae
[to amuse]
2:08
Tatemae vs. Honne /「建前 vs. 本音」
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T5wChRfWBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T5wChRfWBI
Dogen
  Oct 27, 2018
Learn Japanese pitch-accent and pronunciation from my Patreon Series "Japanese Phonetics"
http://www.patreon.com/dogen
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what is in a message

http://visual-memory.co.uk/daniel/Documents/S4B/sem07.html

An ironic statement is not, of course, the same as a lie since it is not intended to be taken as 'true'. Irony has sometimes been referred to as 'double-coded'.

Modality          Postcard          Truth            Perceived
status            message           status           intent
---------------   ---------------   -----------      ------------
literal/factual   "the weather is   true             to inform
                   is wonderful"    (the weather
                                     is wonderful)

ironic            "the weather is   false            to amuse
                   is wonderful"    (the weather
                                     is dreadful)

lie               "the weather      false            to mislead
                   is wonderful"    (the weather
                                     is dreadful)

Irony thus poses particular difficulties for the literalist stance of structuralists and formalists that meaning is immanent - that it lies within a text.
http://visual-memory.co.uk/daniel/Documents/S4B/sem07.html
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Tatemae vs. Honne / 建前 vs. 本音 / Tatemae vs. Honne / 建前 vs. 本音

https://fromjapan.info/topics-about-things-you-need-to-know-about-honne-and-tatemae/
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
In Japan, honne refers to a person's true feelings and desires (本音, hon'ne, "true sound"), and tatemae refers contrastingly to the behavior and opinions one displays in public (建前, tatemae, "built in front", "façade"). This distinction began to be made in the post-war era.[1]: 35 

 (sincere) - (etiquette)

A person's honne may be contrary to what is expected by society or what is required according to one's position and circumstances, and they are often kept hidden, except with one's closest friends. Tatemae is what is expected by society and required according to one's position and circumstances, and these may or may not match one's honne. In many cases, tatemae leads to outright telling of lies in order to avoid exposing the true inward feelings.

The honne–tatemae divide is considered by some[who?] to be of paramount importance in Japanese culture.[2]

Causes
In Japanese culture, public failure and the disapproval of others are seen as particular sources of shame[3]: 153  and reduced social standing,[2]: 53 [4]: 122, 127, 133 [5]: 284  so it is common to avoid direct confrontation or disagreement in most social contexts.[3]: 153, 154, 164  Traditionally, social norms dictate that one should attempt to minimize discord; failure to do so might be seen as insulting or aggressive.[3]: 218  For this reason, the Japanese tend to go to great lengths to avoid conflict, especially within the context of large groups.[citation needed] By upholding this social norm,[3]: 52, 86  one is socially protected from such transgressions by others.[6]: 192 

The conflict between honne and giri (social obligations) is one of the main topics of Japanese drama throughout the ages.[3]: 205–207, 315  For example, the protagonist would have to choose between carrying out his obligations to his family/feudal lord or pursuing a clandestine love affair.[citation needed]

The same concept in Chinese culture is called "inside face" and "outside face", and these two aspects also frequently come into conflict.[citation needed]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
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3:26
HONNE & TATEMAE (True feeling & Public face) #japanese #learnjapanese #japaneselistening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psUAXoI0wvY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psUAXoI0wvY
Imari Japan
  Jul 12, 2022
Thanks for watching this video!
Today, I would like to explain a few things. I have posted short ”Honne and Tatemae” videos on Instagram before. Some of you guys may be thinking that these Japanese people's honne and tatemae are difficult to understand, that they should speak more honestly, and that I don't understand their feelings.
In my opinion, I think there are good and bad sides to honne and tatemae.
However, I am Japanese and have lived in Japan all my life, so this culture is normal and I don't often find it unpleasant.
Maybe some of you might be thinking, "Don't lie to me!" but I really don't think that Japanese people mean to lie.
Perhaps there is a culture of "honne" and "tatemae" because people don't want to quarrel with each other, or because they don't want to hurt the other person by telling their true intentions.
It is not that I want you to understand this or anything, but if you remember that this culture exists, you may be able to relate with Japanese people a little easier.
Oh, no, is it more confusing? 😅
For now, please don't think too much about it and try to feel comfortable relating to Japanese people.
Again, thank you for watching.
See you soon. Bye!
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9:56
Joseph Campbell — Jung and the Persona System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNypViGWdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GNypViGWdc
Joseph Campbell Foundation
  Nov 17, 2019
Joseph Campbell continues exploring C.G. Jung’s idea of the Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious by looking at Jung’s concept of the Persona/Personae — the aspects of one’s personality that been shaped from outside, by the society in which one lives. In particular Campbell focusses on the ways that Asian and Western societies approach this.
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Adam 1 and Adam 2, David Brooks
The lonely man of faith, 1965
Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik


8:33
David Brooks - Adam 1 and Adam 2
https://youtu.be/PN8Yzxy11X0
https://youtu.be/PN8Yzxy11X0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN8Yzxy11X0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN8Yzxy11X0
My Water
  Nov 9, 2015
David Brooks (author, NY Times columnist, Professor at Yale) delivers a compelling blueprint for the gamut of moral genius, drawing lessons from: Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik, Nietzsche, George Catlett Marshall, Jr., David Foster Wallace and other greats.

It is worth noting that although David Brooks has given this speech a dozen times he chooses to read from a paper.
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55:51
The Road to Depth: Thinking about what Character Is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGOrpOFTJTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGOrpOFTJTQ
The Aspen Institute
  Jul 11, 2014
David Brooks: Some people seem to lead inner lives that are richer and more substantive than the rest of us. How do they do it? This talk is a survey of some of history's most substantive characters. How love, suffering, struggle, surrender and obedience lead them to their depth.
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Hans-Georg Gadamer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Georg_Gadamer

Thus, Gadamer is not giving a prescriptive method on how to understand, but rather he is working to examine how understanding, whether of texts, artwork, or experience, is possible at all. Gadamer intended Truth and Method to be a description of what we always do when we interpret things (even if we do not know it): "My real concern was and is philosophic: not what we do or what we ought to do, but what happens to us over and above our wanting and doing".[36]

As a result of Martin Heidegger’s temporal analysis of human existence, Gadamer argued that people have a so-called historically-effected consciousness (wirkungsgeschichtliches Bewußtsein), and that they are embedded in the particular history and culture that shaped them.

historically-effected consciousness (wirkungsgeschichtliches Bewußtsein)

[people and human existence] are embedded in the particular history and culture that shaped them.

historical consciousness is ... “a stream in which we move and participate, in every act of understanding.”[37]

For Gadamer, these prejudices are not something that hinders our ability to make interpretations, but are both integral to the reality of being, and “are the basis of our being able to understand history at all.”[38] Gadamer criticized Enlightenment thinkers for harboring a "prejudice against prejudices".[39]

For Gadamer, interpreting a text involves a fusion of horizons (Horizontverschmelzung). Both the text and the interpreter find themselves within a particular historical tradition, or “horizon.” Each horizon is expressed through the medium of language, and both text and interpreter belong to and participate in history and language. This “belongingness” to language is the common ground between interpreter and text that makes understanding possible. As an interpreter seeks to understand a text, a common horizon emerges. This fusion of horizons does not mean the interpreter now fully understands some kind of objective meaning, but is “an event in which a world opens itself to him.”[40] The result is a deeper understanding of the subject matter.

Gadamer further explains the hermeneutical experience as a dialogue. To justify this, he uses Plato's dialogues as a model for how we are to engage with written texts. To be in conversation, one must take seriously “the truth claim of the person with whom one is conversing.”[41] Further, each participant in the conversation relates to one another insofar as they belong to the common goal of understanding one another.[42] Ultimately, for Gadamer, the most important dynamic of conversation as a model for the interpretation of a text is “the give-and-take of question and answer.”[42] In other words, the interpretation of a given text will change depending on the questions the interpreter asks of the text. The "meaning" emerges not as an object that lies in the text or in the interpreter, but rather an event that results from the interaction of the two.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasein
Dasein (German pronunciation: [ˈdaːzaɪn]) (sometimes spelled as Da-sein) is the German word for 'existence'.[1] It is a fundamental concept in the existential philosophy of Martin Heidegger. Heidegger uses the expression Dasein to refer to the experience of being that is peculiar to human beings. Thus it is a form of being that is aware of and must confront such issues as personhood, mortality and the dilemma or paradox of living in relationship with other humans while being ultimately alone with oneself.

 It is derived from da-sein, which literally means "being-there"/"there-being"[3]—though Heidegger was adamant that this was an inappropriate translation of Dasein.[4] Dasein for Heidegger can be a way of being involved with and caring for the immediate world in which one lives, while always remaining aware of the contingent element of that involvement, of the priority of the world to the self, and of the evolving nature of the self itself.[3]

The opposite of this authentic self is everyday and inauthentic Dasein, the forfeiture of one's individual meaning, destiny and lifespan, in favour of an (escapist) immersion in the public everyday world—the anonymous, identical world of the They and the Them.[5]: 64–81 
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Interpretation is going on all the time.
Knowledge is interest driven.
All knowledge is already interpreted knowledge.
We take for granted in many way.
Knowledge, perception, interpretation, meaning-making is going on all the time.
Language is both a source of revelation and a source of obfuscation.
Language is a source of deep profound misunderstanding.

Invited to answer those questions

source:
38:43
Understanding and Dialogue: What I Have Learned from H. G. Gadamer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKPavjWk-pM&t=378s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKPavjWk-pM&t=378s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKPavjWk-pM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKPavjWk-pM
The Craft of Living : By Ante Jeroncic
  Dec 6, 2020
Understanding, dialogue, interpretation, attention, and openness are essential ingredients of meaningful interpersonal relationships. They also happen to be central themes in one of the most important contributions to contemporary thought - H. G. Gadamer's philosophical hermeneutics. In this episode, I relate some of the ways in which he has influenced me.

EPISODE SECTIONS
00:05 - Updates, Insights, and Announcements
06:18 - Episode Star
09:26 - Interpretation
20:29 - Language
23:45 - Dialogue
28:58 - David Brook's article "Nine Nonobvious Ways to Have Deeper Conversation"
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4:05
Leadership Speaker Erin Meyer: Low Context vs. High Context Societies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYfhTC9lIQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oYfhTC9lIQ
The Lavin Agency Speakers Bureau
  May 9, 2014
Erin Meyer, author of The Culture Map, details the delicate balance between societies that communicate with “low context” and those that use “high context,” and shows how we can navigate cross-cultural complexities.
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11:08
The Culture Map: The Future of Management
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1ZI-O_9tU
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1ZI-O_9tU
Erin Meyer
  Dec 30, 2014
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33:17
The Culture Map - Erin Meyer - Italian Subs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRBpwjdk7dw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRBpwjdk7dw
Chantyba
  May 21, 2021
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Ieomoto : The Heart of Japan

Francis L. K. Hsu

copyright © 1975 by Schenkman Publishing Company
3 Mount Auburn Place, Cambridge, Mass. 02138

Hsu, Francis L K  1909-
   Iemoto: the heart of Japan.
   "A Schenkman publication"
   1. kinship--Japan.
   2. Gilds--Japan.
   3. Japan--Civilization.

HQ682.H85

ISBN 0-470-41756-0 paper
     0-470-41755-2 Cloth

(18.)  Amami_ithoj                                  [ ]

pp.82-83
     Finally, Douglas Haring, who held the view that Tokugawa "sumptuary legislation molded traditional Japanese character," unexpectedly came upon a pocket of Japanese "whose forebears escaped Tokugawa domination and whose customs still preserve traces of pre-Tokugawa Japan."  He found this group on the island of Amami Oshima, located between Kyushu and Okinawa.  According to Haring, the inhabitants of this island had preserved a kind of archaic "cultural base" which still includes "ideas and beliefs long extinct in Japan, but recorded in ancient Japanese documents."  He went on to say,

           Amamians meet friendly advances more than halfway.  American G.I.s stationed there soon became attached to them.  To stress these aspects of Amamian character detracts nothing from the hospitality and friendliness, usually unfeigned, of the people of Japan Proper.  In Japan Proper, however, frankness and friendliness without suspicion are new, cultivated with a bit of effort; the Tokugawa mask is not quickly discarded.  In Amami there never was any Tokugawa mask.  As far as the "planned quality" of Japanese behavior goes, Amamian behavior is less cast in the rigid mold of codes of conduct, more spontaneous and fun-loving.  Their rich and durable sense of humour withstandings the disasters of storm and famine that sweep their islands.  They "kid" each other with the same abandon that American young people manifest; they even poke fun at Japanese ceremonial suicide, saying "Why commit suicide?  Living is too much fun!"  True, they retain the habit of watchful attention to the whims of authority; 250 years of slavery taught them to anticipate the wishes of rulers and avoid torture.  But their folk songs run the gamut of human emotions, their folk dancing is superb, and the carefree abandon of the southern islanders has not been destroyed by prolonged serfdom.
           Ridicule and shame(guilt) carry weight in Amami but do not pass endurance.  The child who blunders in public still is loved and cherished by his family.  Never have I seen families whose members openly, unselfconsciously love each other more devotedly.  The reverse of this affection appears in sudden rages that may end in murder if a mate is unfaithful or love is rejected.  There is none of the impassivity so characteristic of the pre-war Japanese.  As for politeness, Tokugawa etiquette reached only the small ruling class on Amami.  Spontaneous hospitality, consideration of others, and kindness outweigh the equally open tokens of hostility under frustration; genuine emotions are not camouflaged by poker faces.  As one Amami gentleman said to me at a party when a geisha danced: "That's a Japanese dance.  She looks like a funeral: deadpan.  Now wait for an Amani dance; the girls will smile and laugh, and everyone will be happy."  So indeed it happened. (Haring 1956:436).

(The Japanese usually write the term 'iemoto' with two Chinese characters: 'chia' (meaning household or family in both languages) and 'yuan' (meaning origin or root).  The combined effect of "family root" is indicative of the nature of this important and unique secondary grouping.)
("Iemoto: the heart of Japan.", Francis L. K. Hsu (1975), Schenkman Publishing Company, Cambridge, Mass., [HQ682.H85])
(Hsu, Francis L K (1975); "Iemoto: the heart of Japan.", [HQ682.H85], pp.82-83)

Haring, Douglas G.
    1956   "Japanese National Character: Cultural Anthropology, Psychoanalysis, and History."  In Douglas G. Haring (ed.), 'Personal Character and Cultural Milieu'.  3rd ed. Syracuse, New York: Syracuse University Press.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_unknown_unknowns

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